# infinite regression fallacy

3 The Fallacy of Regression problem (a) Why do philosophers usually reject the idea that there are infinite regressions? The regression (or regressive) fallacy is an informal fallacy. INFINITE REGRESSION. OK, … The point of infinite regression is that it never provides any proof that does not itself need to be proved, so it appears to present evidence, yet the evidence is never shown to be valid. (This is what the argument is postulating). then what created god? Without Divine revelation, neither logic nor math can be known. The simplification of the argument is the following: Anything complex must have been created by something with intelligence. One method to stop this infinite regression is to assume that life does not need a creator. (This is what the argument is postulating). Re: Infinite Regression by GreatandWiseTrixie » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:11 am For this discussion, universe means the collection of galaxies we call "the universe" 1 A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. This fails to account for natural fluctuations. The universe naturally expands and contracts only to expand again. An infinite regression is a proposed chain of causation in which each purported cause itself requires another event of exactly the same type to cause it.. Moore's naturalism has much in common with that of David Hume. He suggests that God is part of the chain, so he would need to be part of an infinite regression. All human thought (without Divine revelation) is based on one of three unhappy possibilities. So, if a number is countable, then counting the individual parts and finally reaching the number is traversing, which means the number is traversable. Ultimately it is logically incoherent because our premise exists within the space-time continuum. An infinite regress is an infinite series of occurrences or concepts. An evolutionist wanted to debate his creationist friend. Infinite regress is one of the many smokescreens that are used to cover the fact that the reasoning is based on one of the three fallacies of Agrippa's trilemma. Explore discussion on the topic - Is the paradox of infinite regress a fallacy? 3. It can't be infinite because that would create an infinite regression of causation, which is a fallacy and therefore impossible, which leaves us with a finite universe that needs a cause. This is the point where the theists respond "God is infinite, he wasn't created." We don’t add unproven claims on the way to the conclusion, and the premise must prove that the conclusion is true. Prominent atheist and popular author Richard Dawkins responds to the idea of a first cause by assigning the fallacy of an infinite regression to God himself. The creationist asked for the reason that the evolutionist thought that the premise of his answer was true. For example, in mathematics we can think of a series of numbers without end: …–3,–2,–1,0,1,2,3 . If the reasons count as knowledge, they must themselves be justified with reasons for the reasons, and so on, ad infinitum. One example of a viciously infinite regression arises in intelligent design creationism, which states that there are problems in the theory of Darwinian evolution by natural selection which can only be resolved by invoking a designer or first cause without proposing a solution to the immediate question, "Who designed the designer?" Why should we make God the exception? The argument that infinite regression into eternity past would never allow us to arrive at the present kind of sounds silly. Also applies to constructing objects out of particles; … This page was last modified on 14 May 2020, at 16:35. An example that has been used to explain the problem is that of the soldier waiting for orders to fire. Infinite regress is one of the many smokescreens that are used to cover the fact that the reasoning is based on one of the three fallacies of Agrippa's trilemma. This problem is known as Agrippa's trilemma. This cause is God. We don’t try […] Why can't we apply this same argument to the Big Bang theory, for instance (the origin of the universe arose from somthing which arose from something else ad infinitum). This isn't an infinite regress. Whether all things must have a "first cause" or not, is a subject of debate. Infinite regressions are possible in reality. Aristotle says that if a number is truly infinite, it can't be traversed because the end of the number can't ever be reached. Infinite regress: Saying that infinite (without a beginning) number of past events must be concluded before any thing leaves the realm of existence leads to infinite regress. This turns out the be the case, though in a somewhat interesting manner. If the reasons count as knowledge, they must themselves be justified with reasons for the reasons, and so on, ad infinitum. (From the book Zero, if 1=0, Winston Churchill is a carrot.) Some argue he commits the Infinite Regress Fallacy by saying that infinite regress is wrong. These three possibilities are infinite regression, circular reasoning, or axiomatic thinking. Objection: The Fallacy of Infinite Regression. It is not an argument against evolution but rather an example of infinite regress. If it ends then it is a contradiction of terms. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. The "Turtles all the way down" anecdote illustrates a popular example of infinite regress: The term "homunculus" first appeared in Paracelsus' writing on alchemy, De Natura Rerum (1537),[3] referring to what later became known as sperm after the invention of the microscope. Source: Aristotle refers to the impossibility of an infinite regress in his proof of the unmoving mover (Physics, 8.1). Some people saythat Intelligent Design is an example of infinite regression. However, there came a time when the creationist asked, "And what convinces you of that?" A secularist can never rationally say that he or she knows anything. Whether all things must have a "first cause" or not, is a subject of debate. Infinite regress is one of the many smokescreens that are used to cover the fact that the reasoning is based on one of the three fallacies of Agrippa's trilemma. He suggests that God is part of the chain, so he would need to be part of an infinite regression. We must prove that the proof is true before using the proof to prove that the conclusion is true. Prominent atheist and popular author Richard Dawkins responds to the idea of a first cause by assigning the fallacy of an infinite regression to God himself. 1 An example 2 Another Example: Who created the creator? (However the argument doesn't prove or set out to prove the God of Classical Theism.) It didn't go to infinity, of course, but it went longer than most questioners have patience and most who answer those questions will allow. The fallacy is a causation fallacy and an informal fallacy. Then, he blurted out, "I guess I'm making the whole thing up.". (see Agrippa's Trilemma). Objection: The Fallacy of Infinite Regression. Fallacies of relevance are fallacies which are due to a lack of a relevant logical connection between premise and conclusion. It only means it's not a convincing argument. To conceive of a reality outside of this is not meaningfully fathomable, and therefore irrelevant to the question. Given the definitions of the terms and the logical validity of the argument, Aristotle concluded that there exist no infinite numbers. Homunculus fallacy. People do not like it because it is not clean. http://www.theaudiopedia.com What is REGRESSION FALLACY? [6]:212,216,242,252,279, Argument from oh bloody hell that was years ago, Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur, Affirmative conclusion from a negative premise, Negative conclusion from affirmative premises, https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Infinite_regress&oldid=2183521, ∴There does not exist a number that is infinite. The important thing here is that it's being claimed that asserting there is an infinite number of explanatory events is inherently fallacious – in particular this preacher asserted that it's a "vicious infinite regress," which I can only satisfactorily define as a regression that posits new explanations to account for a cause, explanations that themselves require explanations. argument that shows an infinite regress to result in a contradiction Now, 'countable' and 'traversable' need to be defined. An infinite universe dissolves this causal regression Why does an electron exist? In folklore and in literature, homunculus often refers to a miniature fully-formed human. I've read one arguer that claimed it was a fallacy due to the arguments for … It occurs in some philosophical concepts and is sometimes considered an unwanted or absurd implication. Just because. There is no a-priori reason why an infinite regress cannot occur. Many of you, I think, I have heard of the argument against infinite regression. The original homunculus argument in which it is stated that we see because there is an image projected in our head which a little man, a homunculus, sees. Science is also limited to the pragmatic because of the weakness on human reasoning, which is known as Agrippa's trilemma. The problem of the infinite regress was a critical argument of the Skeptics in ancient philosophy. . The other option I am aware of is a circular chain of events. Despite assertions from many mathematicians, the word "infinity" is actually meaningless. The homunculus argument is a fallacy arising most commonly in the theory of vision.One may explain (human) vision by noting that light from the outside world forms an image on the retinas in the eyes and something (or someone) in the brain looks at these images as if they are images on a movie … The oldest practical illustration of the concept of infinite … god. This is why Aquinas rejects the idea of infinite regress, as he believes, that something must have set the whole chain of reactions off, for example something has to push the first domino for the chain reaction to start, and this being for Christians is the unmoved mover or in other terms God. Infinite regress of homunculus. This raises the question of what set the original chain in motion--in short, what was the "first cause." G. E. Moore maintained that "good" is an indefinable primitive, especially that it cannot be defined as something in the natural world, such as Bentham's pleasure, Mill's utility, the evolutionary theorists's survival, or even life itself.To identify good with something natural is called Moore's naturalistic fallacy. Whether referring to the origins of the universe or any other regressive context, the answer simply moves the question back into infinite regress rather than answering it. This seemingly impossible regression is considered a fallacy when it means that the believer must then have an infinite number of ideas in his head; yet only God is said to be that infinite, so can it be true or is it a real fallacy? For if we have an infinite amount of preceding events then we can never get to where we are now, that there must ultimately be a ‘first cause’ or ‘prime mover’. http://www.theaudiopedia.com What is REGRESSION FALLACY? This creator must be complex in order to have created something complex. This example is a true story. [6] Stalinist examples include Khorloogiin Choibalsan of Mongolia, Georgi Dimitrov of Bulgaria, Klement Gottwald of Czechoslovakia, Enver Hoxha of Albania, Kim Il Sung of North Korea, and Konstantin Chernenko of the Soviet Union. 'Traversing' is the act of counting. The problem of the infinite regress was a critical argument of the Skeptics in ancient philosophy. A regression fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when an extreme value of some randomly varying event (something exceptional) is accepted as the normal value, and so when the value regresses to the mean, this change is believed to have been caused by some other event.. No evidence for this has ever been presented for peer review, or critical analysis of any kind. It looks like physics will actually get more fundamental than this, but the logic is the same; why is the ToE or GUT true? Classical illustrations of infinite regression. Whenever a logical fallacy is committed, the fallacy has its roots in Agrippa's trilemma. If the truth of a premise P1 is proven by premise P2, and the truth of premise P2 is proven by premise P3, and this pattern continues without being resolved, this is infinite regress. You would think that the decay of particles and increase of entropy in a system would be a micrcosmic example of the same process at a macrocosmic scale.. and yet the concept of a pure nothingness is senseless. The fact that we are in the present is proof. Another little man inside his head. The cosmological argument, according to Edwards, commits the fallacy of composition because it assumes that because each part of the universe is caused that therefore the universe as a whole must have a cause, but that doesn't take into account the possibility of an infinite regress of events. (also known as: homunculus argument, infinite regress) Description: An argument that accounts for a phenomenon in terms of the very phenomenon that it is supposed to explain, which results in an infinite regress. Most people don't want to reveal their true reasoning, not even to themselves. Whenever a logical fallacy is committed, the fallacy has its roots in Agrippa's trilemma. That it is a logical fallacy does not mean X or Y is not true. That's the real question. Contents. (b) Explain in your own words the problem with using the idea of infinite regression to criticise the Cosmological argument Challenges to the Cosmological Argument—Ways 1 & 2 Go to 1:15.That's how I just said "exxxxactly" when I read that, James. Infinite Regression is a term that has come up in the Evolution/Intelligent Design debate. Infinite regressions are possible in reality. We don’t play mind games between the proof and the conclusion. In Dawkins' 'The God Delusion', he says God almost certainly doesn't exist due to infinite regress. A frequently quoted example reported in 1973 by the Israeli psychologists Daniel Kahneman (born 1934) and Amos Tversky (1937–96) comes from the experience of flying instructors. However, many atheists reject this theory as they believe that the idea of infinite regress is very plausible. Yes. This time, the evolutionist got a very surprised look on his face. An infinite regress arises when we ask what are the justifications for the reasons themselves. The 'regression' is that it must keep going backward, and it is 'infinite' because each one must be based upon a previous one. Reason Y depends on phenomenon X. The Münchhausen Trilemma, sometimes called Agrippa's … The Logical Fallacy of Infinite Regress / Homunculus Argument occurs when an argument forms an endless loop of dependent premises, never reaching a premise that can stand as true on its own. Thus this "creator" must have … It is too large a leap from First Cause or Prime Mover to God. It's embarrassing. In a similar … An infinite regression follows the form: P 1 causes Q 1; Q 2 causes P 1; P 3 causes Q 2; Q 4 causes P 3; And so on, forever We don’t add unproven claims on the way to the conclusion, and the premise must prove that the conclusion is true. So the creationist again asked for the proof of the proof. a simpler example would be: what created the universe? – user2953 Dec 31 '15 at 11:10 | show 3 more comments. The 'regression' is that it must keep going backward, and it is 'infinite' because each one must be based upon a previous one. If Aristotle had thought of the number 42, he would have thought that it was composed of 42 individual parts. The point of infinite regression is … A regression fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when an extreme value of some randomly varying event (something exceptional) is accepted as the normal value, and so when the value regresses to the mean, this change is believed to have been caused by some other event. – sol acyon Dec 31 '15 at 11:09. So the argument goes: Everything has a cause, so the universe therefore must have a cause. The simplification of the argument is the following: Anything complex must have been created by something with intelligence. It's a fallacy because it is begging the question that is to say that it is a circular argument. Reason Y is given. Why not make the universe the … Ix) reads "there exists an x such that x is a number and x is infinite," and is a supposition for the sake of argument. (From the book Zero, if 1=0, Winston Churchill is a carrot.) All events rely on a precursor event in a causal chain of events. Quick Reference. It reminds me of the anecdote illustrating the infinite regression fallacy. For example Aquinas … Moore's naturalism has much in common with that of David Hume.Hume claimed that we cannot … If we imagine a soldier waiting for … 8. The Logical Fallacy of Infinite Regress / Homunculus Argument occurs when an argument forms an endless loop of dependent premises, never reaching a premise that can stand as true on its own. An infinite regress is where the validity of one proposition (A) depends on the validity of another (B), and the validity of B depends on C, infinitely down the line. The creationist didn't want to debate but agreed to discuss. Unless explicitly noted otherwise, all content licensed as indicated by. Infinite regression in itself is not a fallacy. He also has a little man inside his head, but how does this little man see? You could say another god ad infinitum, which is essentially what the regressive explanation for the origin of the universe does. Whether all things must have a "first cause" or not, is a subject of debate. . Proof of Infinite Regression's Fallacy The starting guess is that infinite regression is a contradiction, and like all contradictions assuming it is true results in finding that you can use it to prove anything. Infinity is a logical fallacy. For Hume to say that every event is caused by another event is to say little more than that every even is preceded by another event. You can construct any chain of causality like a proof; this cause happened and therefore there was this effect, and that effect caused a … Infinite regress: Saying that infinite (without a beginning and end) number of past events must be concluded before any thing leaves the realm of existence leads to infinite regress. Then there could be an infinite series of causes and effects which had no beginning, Response: Big Bang suggests universe does have a beginning… (b) The Fallacy of Infinite Regression (c) The Fallacy of Composition 2 Hume attacking the link between causes and effects (a) You cannot see the link between causes and effect but we assume it based on what we have observed to happen in our past experience (b) Habit makes us link cause and effect together . Infinite Regression versus Causality Because infinite regression is a fallacy, the fact that quantum mechanics isn't entirely deterministic should be completely unsurprising. This raises the question of what set the original chain in motion—in short, what was the "first cause." A finite universe would require a cause and therefore lead to infinite regression (what caused the first cause, what caused that cause, etc.) Because by definition infinity does not end. An infinite regression is when we use one premise to infer another premise, and then we repeat that ad … The question is, how does the little man see? The ‘infinite regress’ argument posits that we cannot have an infinite amount of preceding events or causes. For even one infinite regression to work you must already know that every … Date: 25 July 2012: Source: File:Cartesian_Theater.svg: Author: Original work: Jennifer Garcia (User:Reverie) Derivative work: User:Pbroks13; Derivative work of derivative work: User:Was a bee; Permission (Reusing this file) This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 Generic, 2.0 Generic and 1.0 … In other words, there was no proof of the proof. An infinite regression is a proposed chain of causation in which each purported cause itself requires another event of exactly the same type to cause it. You guessed it. This is the wrong way around. It assumes that something has returned to normal because of corrective actions taken while it was abnormal. This series of numbers could continue positively and negatively forever. Sextus Empiricus tells us there are two basic Pyrrhonian modes or tropes that lead the … This statement does not involve an infinite regress because being preceded by an event is not a necessary condition for being an event. This series of numbers could continue positively and negatively forever. Instead I've seen him defend the Big Bang theory with the "Something … Alias: The Regressive Fallacy 1 Taxonomy: Logical Fallacy > Informal Fallacy > Non Causa Pro Causa > The Regression Fallacy Etymology: To "regress" is to go back, or revert to an earlier or more primitive state. Do you think the fallacy of infinite regress proves there is an uncaused cause? Logical Fallacy of Infinite Regress / Homunculus Argument, The Logical Fallacy of Unsubstantiated Inference, Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Worldview / Appeal to Fake-Reality / Appeal to Paradigm / Appeal to Confirmation Bias, Fantasy Projection / Worldview Projection / Fake-Reality Projection / Paradigm Projection / Context Projection, The Logical Fallacy ofAmazing Familiarity, Stolen Concept Fallacy / Smuggled Concept Fallacy, Logical Fallacy of Proof by Theoretical Stories, The Logical Fallacy of Anecdotal Evidence Presented as Scientific Evidence / Personal Testimony Presented as Scientific Evidence, Logical Fallacy of Dismissing All Personal Testimony, Logical Fallacy of Rewriting History / Have it Your Way, Logical Fallacy of Argument from Personal Incredulity / Personal Belief / Personal Conviction, Logical Fallacy of Argument by Lack of Imagination, Logical Fallacy of Argument by Imagination, The Logical Fallacy of Capturing the Naive / Argumentum ad Captandum / Argumentum ad Captandum Vulgus, Logical Fallacy of Argument from Personal Astonishment, Logical Fallacy of Unintended Self-Inclusion, Logical Fallacy of Proof by Assertion / Proof by Repeated Assertion, Logical Fallacy of Proof by Understatement / Misunderstanding by Understatement, Logical Fallacy of Proof by Logical Tautology, Logical Fallacy of Proof by False Declaration of Victory, Logical Fallacy of Assumption Correction Assumption, False Criteria Fallacy / Fallacy of Questionable Criteria, Logical Fallacy of Cutting Off Discussion / Summary Dismissal, Logical Fallacy of Thought-Terminating Cliche / ClicheThinking, Logical Fallacy of the Perfect Solution / Nirvana Fallacy / Perfect Solution Fallacy / Perfectionist Fallacy, Just In Case Fallacy / Worst Case Scenario Fallacy, Logical Fallacy of Unwarranted Extrapolation, Logical Fallacy of Subjectivity / Relativist Fallacy / Subjectivist Fallacy, Logical Fallacy of Bizarre Hypothesis/Theory / Far-Fetched Hypothesis/Theory, Logical Fallacy of Least Plausible Hypothesis, Logical Fallacy of Extravagant Hypothesis / Complex Hypothesis Fallacy, Logical Fallacy of Privileging the Hypothesis, Logical Fallacy of False Appeal to Heaven / Appeal to Heaven / Gott Mit Uns / Manfest Destiny / Special Covenant, Logical Fallacy of Hedging / Having Your Cake / Failure to Assert / Diminished Claim / Failure to Choose Sides / Talking out of Both Sides of Your Mouth / If by Whiskey, Preacher's "We" / Salesman's "We" / Politician's "We" Fallacy, Logical Fallacy of Argument from Hearsay / Telephone Game / Chinese Whispers / Anecdotal Evidence / Volvo Fallacy, Logical Fallacy of Ad Hoc Rescue / Ad Hoc Hypothesis, The Logical Fallacy of Hindsight Bias / Knew-it-all-Along Effect / Creeping Determinism, Logical Fallacy of Continuum / Argument of the Beard / Fallacy of the Beard / Heap Fallacy / Heap Paradox Fallacy / Bald Man Fallacy / Continuum Fallacy / Line Drawing Fallacy / Sorites Fallacy, Logical Fallacy of Argument from Fallacy / Argumentum Ad Logicam, The Logical Fallacy of Reification / Anti-Conceptual Mentality Fallacy / Attributing Concreteness to the Abstract / Concretism / Hypostatization Fallacy / Objectification, Logical Fallacy of Reification / Personification, Logical Fallacy of Superstitious Thinking / Magical Thinking, Appeal to the Untested / Appeal to the Unknown Fallacy, Appeal to Pragmatism Fallacy / Pragmatic Fallacy / Appeal to Convenience / Pragmatism / Appeal to Utility / Argumentum Ad Convenientiam, How can we know anything about anything? This argument is often used against the ideas of creationism and intelligent design. The creationist answered again. It is frequently a special kind of the post hoc fallacy Explanation. Infinite regression is one of the three possible invalid basis for secularist thinking, the other two are circular reasoning and assumption. This went on for over an hour, which a tribute to this evolutionist. This raises the question of what set the original chain in motion--in short, what was the "first cause." Well, it just is. The evolutionist again gave a seemingly logical answer, but one that didn't prove the premises. And there is no end to it. Idea of 'internal viewer' generates infinite regress of internal viewers.. This seemingly impossible regression is considered a fallacy when it means that the believer must then have an infinite number of ideas in his head; yet only God is said to be that infinite, so can it be true or is it a real fallacy? I don't think that that alone proves or disproves the existence of God. Logical Form: Phenomenon X needs to be explained. so it is tempting to apply the explanation to itself. An infinite regression is a proposed chain of causation in which each purported cause itself requires another event of exactly the same type to cause it. This does hold in a Secularist worldview. If the truth of a premise P1 is proven by premise P2, and the truth of premise P2 is proven by premise P3, and this pattern continues without being resolved, this is infinite regress. … do you think the fallacy is committed, the evolutionist thought that it was Bertrand Russell ) gave! He was n't created. using the proof to prove that the conclusion true. Alone proves or disproves the existence of God a term that has been used explain! On 14 May 2020, at 16:35 itself be an infinite regress was a critical argument of the regress! 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